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The lecture will be in EnglishDavid Goldenberg (UK) Between Revolution and Heresy Thursday 12 December 2013, 19.00LECTURE  @PAVILION | proudly supported by UniCredit Țiriac Bank Str. C.A. Rosetti 36 (Entrance from str. Jean Louis Calderon)FB event: www.facebook.com/events/378113362324138/In the 90’s, the Hamburg-based theorist Michael Lingner introduced through two texts, indebted to Luhmann’s Systems theory, the concept of Post Autonomy; a term which is appropriated from the 70’s in response to Barthes’ “Death of the Author”. These texts crudely worked through the inherent logic in art that led to the impasse known as Post Modern Art, the consequences of a non-developing art that continues along the route of Post Modernism and outlines a path that separates from that impasse. Although Lingner did not develop the route out of this quandary, which proposed a fundamental rethinking of art and artistic concepts, this mapped out the inherent potentiality of Post Autonomy. During the 90’s, further authors developed similar sounding descriptions, which also proposed radical breaks with a normalised art world in the form of an artistic strike. This was a refusal to contribute creative labour to the art industry in the manner of Gustav Metzger’s art strike, without following down that path. We can now see that the thinking revolving around Post Autonomy during this elementary stage either sought to interrogate the symptoms of Post Modernism or find solutions that are too radical to be carried out. During the beginning of the new century the ideas have undergone further developments. In 2008 Peter Osbourne, Charles Esche and Jeff Wall redefined Post Autonomy as a practice that is a set of theories interrogating Post Conceptual Art. Contextualised within the Biennial form, Post Autonomy also interrogates the Biennial form, Colonisation and Globalisation, meaning the spatial reach of a Euro-Centric tradition. More recently, theorists such as Pamela Lee (“Leaving the Art World”) address Post Autonomy in more general terms that revolve around rethinking through what is understood by Autonomy and its various permutations, or advocating the very radical actions that the earlier theorists proposed. However, what appears in retrospect is that Post Autonomy as a body of descriptions makes more sense, and that it would be more exact to see these descriptions as the difficulties and complexity faced when we use terms or concepts that are unable to adequately describe the existing state of affairs. In that respect, Post Autonomy can be seen as the earliest register of the symptoms not of Post Modernism but of Neo-Liberalism, the task of understanding art and thinking that we witness being emptied out.David Goldenberg is a London based artist. In 2014 he will publish a book of recent texts and projects examining “Post Autonomy”. He was exhibited in The Caspian Biennial Convention; collateral exhibition at Venice Biennial, 2013; 1st Land Art Biennial of Mongolia; 10th Istanbul Biennial; ICA Philadelphia; Shedhalle, Zurich; 6th Sharjah Biennial; Tate Modern; ICA London, UK and many more. Between 2010 – 2011 he produced 10 programmes for Resonance FM radio examining Post Autonomy. He lives and works in London. Image: “In search of Post Autonomy” durational performance, 1st June 2013, Venice Biennial. Chalk on marble with found leaflet, St. Mark’s Square. In collaboration with Ioana Pioaru, Kate Kotcheff, Andrea Lind-Valdan. Copyright David Goldenbergwww.postautonomy.co.uk—David Goldenberg (UK)  Între Revoluție și Erezie Joi 12 decembrie 2013, 19.00LECTURE  @PAVILION | proudly supported by UniCredit Țiriac Bank Str. C.A. Rosetti 36 (intrarea din str. Jean Louis Calderon)FB event: www.facebook.com/events/378113362324138/În anii ’90, teoreticianul stabilit în Hamburg, Michael Lingner, a introdus prin intermediul a două texte datorate “Teoriei Sistemelor” lui Luhmann, conceptul de “post autonomie”; termenul este apropriat din anii ’70 ca răspuns la lucrarea lui R. Barthes, “Moartea Autorului”. Aceste texte parcurg într-un mod brutal logica inerentă a artei ce a condus la impasul cunoscut ca “arta postmodernă”, consecințele unei arte neevoluate care își continuă parcursul pe direcția postmodernismului și care trasează un drum ce se izolează de acel impas. Deși Lingner nu a descoperit o ieșire din această dilemă, o situație ce propunea o regândire fundamentală a artei și a conceptelor artistice, acest lucru a prevăzut potențialul inerent al post autonomiei. În timpul anilor ’90, autorii ulteriori au dezvoltat descrieri asemănătoare ca formă, ce propuneau, de asemenea, divizări radicale în lumea unei arte normalizate, sub forma unor greve artistice. Aceste greve reprezentau refuzul de a contribui la producția industriei artistice,  în maniera grevei artistice a lui Gustav Metzger, fără a o copia pe aceasta. Acum putem vedea cum gândirea ce gravitează în jurul post autonomiei în această etapă elementară, fie a căutat să interogheze simptomele postmodernismului, sau să găsească soluții care sunt prea radicale pentru a fi aplicate. La începutul noului secol aceste idei au căpătat dezvoltări ulterioare. În anul 2008, Peter Osbourne, Charles Esche și Jeff Wall au redefinit post autonomia ca o practică alcătuită dintr-un set de teorii care cercetează “arta post-conceptuală”. Contextualizată în forma bienalei de artă, post autonomia interoghează conturul bienalei, colonizarea și globalizarea, adică întinderea spațială a unei tradiții eurocentrice. Mai recent, teoreticieni ca Pamela Lee (“Leaving the Art World”) se adresează problemei post autonomiei în termeni mai generali ce se referă la o regândire a conceptului de autonomie și a numeroaselor ei permutări sau la o susținere a acțiunilor radicale propuse de autorii timpurii. Cu toate acestea, în retrospectivă, post autonomia are mai mult sens luată ca un ansamblu de descrieri și ar fi mult mai metodic să ne raportăm la aceste descrieri ca reprezentând dificultățile și complexitatea cu care ne confruntăm atunci când folosim termen i sau concepte care nu descriu în mod adecvat status quo-ul. Acestea fiind spuse, post autonomia poate fi privită ca cea mai timpurie însemnare, nu a postmodernismului, ci a neoliberalismului, misiunea de a înțelege arta de a conștientiza că suntem martorii propriei noastre goliri.David Goldenberg este un artist londonez. În 2014 va publica o carte ce cuprinde texte și proiecte care cercetează subiectul „post autonomiei”. A expus în cadrul The Caspian Biennial Convention; expoziție paralelă la Venice Biennial, 2013; participări expoziționale în cadrul primei ediții Land Art Biennial of Mongolia, 10th Istanbul Biennial, la Institutul de Artă Contemporană din Philadelphia, la Galeria Shedhalle din Zurich, 6th Sharjah Biennial, Tate Modern, Institutul de Artă Contemporană din Londra și multe altele. Între 2010 și 2011 a realizat zece emisiuni pentru Resonance FM Radio ce examinau subiectul “post autonomiei”. Trăiește și lucrează în Londra. Imagine: “In search of Post Autonomy”, performance, 1 Iunie 2013, Bienala de la Veneția. Cretă pe marmură cu broșură găsită, St. Mark’s Square. În colaborare cu Ioana Pioaru, Kate Kotcheff, Andrea Lind-Valdan. Copyright David Goldenberg www.postautonomy.co.uk

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October 2013 Caspian Sea Biennial Convention, Baku, Azerbaijan October 5th – 10th Artists from around the Caspian sea and guests will show work in the Union of Azerbaijan Artists, and venues around Baku, and take part in a conference examining “The changing role of art and artists in a changing World, including the role of Biennales”.   BULLETIN INFOBOARD of THOUGHT / BIT Project: Yellow Pages of Thoughts (YPOT) with Participating Cultures Venice (PCV) Curators: Bahram Khalilov, David Goldenberg. Coordinators: Andy Werner, Ioana Pioaru. Sponsors: Union of Azerbaijan Artists (ARI) United Artists’ Club (BRK), Center of Contemporary Art (MiM)   Article on the show in Milan https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151744027279339&set=a.10151010463939339.441241.852059338&type=1&theater Bruno Marrapodi | This is Where I Live

Opening: martedì 16 luglio 2013 ore 19,00
Da mercoledì 17 luglio al 24 settembre 2013.
Orario estivo: dal lunedì al venerdì, dalle 15,00 alle 19,00.
Negli altri orari su appuntamento.  La galleria sarà chiusa dal 26 luglio al 2 settembre 2013. For images of the installation please go to - http://www.postautonomyarchive.co.uk/index.php/2013/08/installation-shots-from-venice/   To  view Pdf of Venice Biennial catalogue click on http://www.globalartaffairs.org/books/2013VENICEBIENNALESECONDCATALOGUE.pdf                                                 

Detail from the Transformation of Art installation

    Installation views of  ”The Transformation of Art”                                                                                     DAVID GOLDENBERG

 in

PERSONAL STRUCTURES

55ª Esposizione Internazionale d’Arte la Biennale di Venezia Palazzo Bembo, Rialto, Canal Grande Riva del Carbon, San Marco 4785, Venice, Italy

From the 1st of June to the 24 of November, 2013. Opened daily, from 10.00 AM to 6.00 PM. Closed on Tuesday. Curated by Francesca Crudo, Sarah Gold, Carol Rolla, Valeria Romagnini for GLOBAL ART AFFAIRS FOUNDATION.

Grand Canal, curated by  Francesca Crudo, Sarah Gold, Carol Rolla, Valeria Romagnini per la Global Art Affairs.

list for 2013 are:

Chul Hyun Ahn (KOR), Yoshitaka Amano (JPN), Alice Anderson (GBR), Jan-Erik Andersson (FIN), Axel Anklam (DEU), Yifat Bezalel (ISR), Hans Bischoffshausen (AUT), Djawid Borower (DEU), Faiza Butt (PAK), Mimmo Catania (ITA), Genia Chef (RUS), Chen Ping (CHN), Canal Cheong Jagerroos (CHN), Karlyn De Jongh (NLD), Scott Eady (NZL), Toshikatsu Endo (JPN), Carole Feuerman (USA), Cristiana Fioretti (ITA), Dale Frank (AUS), Chris Fraser (USA), Marc Fromm (DEU), Sally Gabori (AUS), Jakob Gasteiger (AUT), Darryn George (NZL), Selby Ginn (AUS), David Goldenberg (GBR), Gotthard Graubner (DEU), Kimberley Gundle (ZAF), Laura Gurton (USA), Patrick Hamilton (CHL), Anne Herzbluth (DEU), Per Hess (NOR), Hirofumi Isoya (JPN), Sam Jinks (AUS), Grzegorz Klatka (POL), Rori Knudtson (NOR), Mehdi-Georges Lahlou (FRA), James Lavadour (USA), Helmut Lemke (DEU), Luce (LVA), Heinz Mack (DEU), Michele Manzini (ITA), Christopher Martin (USA), Christian Megert (CHE), Herre Methorst (NLD), David Middlebrook (USA), Atelier Morales (CUB), Peter Simon Mühlhäußer (DEU), Hermann Nitsch (AUT), Yoko Ono (JPN), Roman Opalka (FRA), Otto Piene (DEU), Uli Pohl (DEU), Triny Prada (FRA), Qin Chong (CHN), Stefanus Rademeyer (ZAF), Nicola Rae (GBR), Arnulf Rainer (AUT), Bogdan Rata (ROU), Thomas Riess (AUT), Rene Rietmeyer (NLD), Yhonnie Scarce (AUS), Wilhelm Scherübl (AUT), Dmitry Shorin (RUS), Nitin Shroff (IND), The Icelandic Love Corporation (ISL), Monika Thiele (DEU), Michele Tombolini (ITA), Stefan Toth (CZE), Suh Jeong Min (KOR), VALIE EXPORT (AUT), Elena & Vitaliy Vasiliev (UKR), Ben Vautier (FRA), Raphael Vella (MLT), André Wagner (DEU), Xing Xin (CHN), Plamen Yordanov (BGR), Zhang Yu (CHN).

In this exposition, David Goldenberg presents us with a site-specific project entitled The Transformation of Art, the ideal outcome of his recent research into the development of Post Autonomy space as a privileged venue for the renovation of artistic and cultural language. Goldenberg’s research sets out from the proposition that the structure of contemporary artistic production, as part of a Eurocentric artistic tradition, is suffering from a profound crisis, both financial and cultural. Goldenberg, who has repeatedly denounced this status quo, maintains that it manifests itself particularly as a crisis of language. Following an extended conceptual reflection which resulted in the continuous inhabiting of the Post Autonomy Space, the ideal venue for free and autonomous research, the artist now suggests a number of solutions for its renewal: in Participating Cultures, which are ‘involved in creating new concepts for their cultures, which are linked neither to the past nor to Western Modernism, but to concepts which are as of yet unknown’. The Participating Cultures are present in the creative space of the exhibition by means of a participatory practice expressed in a program of online debates and activities which, through the production of mental maps, text works and diagrams, seeks to trace a way out of the current state of impasse and disorientation. The map is the primary symbol of this attempt at reform which, by stepping outside of the cultural model of the Biennial, finds in the reciprocal relationship between European and non-European cultures the basic elements for reinventing cultural structures and reformulating the goals and objectives of Contemporary Art as such.

Biography of the Artist

David Goldenberg, (Hitchin, Hertfordshire, UK, 1956) is an important English conceptual artist.Main solo shows. For years, his research has been concentrated on the Post Autonomy concept, whichhe has developed in a number of shows held at important international institutions, standing out amongst th are the recent Italian show at Glenda Cinquegrana the Studio of Milan, The Scenarios of Post Autonomy on September 2012, followed by the performance In search of Post Autonomy staged at PalazzoIsimbardi, Milan, with the patronage of Provincia di Milano. To those shows we can add Template – MobileDocumenta, Chisenhale Studios, London (2011), The Space of Post Autonomy, Arts Depot, Vienna

(2011), Plausible Artworlds, Basekamp, Philadelphia (2010), Mobile Documenta, Fordham Gallery, London (2009), The Time of Post Autonomy is Now, Your space, Van Abbemuseum, Eindhoven, Holland (2009), The Space of Post Autonomy, Local Operations, Serpentine Gallery, London (2007). Main group exhibitions. Goldenberg has participated in a number of collective shows of international stature,  the Berlin Biennal (2012), the Second Biennial of Mongolia (2010), the tenth  Istanbul Biennial (2007), and the Sixth Sharjah Biennial, United Arab Emirates (2003). To these must be added the exhibitions at international public institutions, such as Jump Into Cold Water, Shedhalle, Zurich (2006), Century City, Tate Modern, London (2001), Out of Space, Kolnischerkustverein, Germany (2000). Selected Bibliography. Plausible Artworlds, Basekamp, 2013; Atlantica, 48/49, 2010, Netwerk Center for Contemporary Art Annual, 2007, Les Merveilles du monde, by Jane Lee, a White Window Project, 2006; Postautonomie, Edited by StefanBeck, Gutleut Verlaug, 2006; Art Anthology, DuMont Literatur und Kunst Verlag, Cologne, 2004; New Media in Late Twentieth Century Art, by Michael Rush, Thames and Hudson book Ed., London, 1995; Installation Art, by Michael Petry, Thames and Hudson Book Ed., London, 1993.

For further informations and images on the show Personal Structures, please contact the curators Sarah Gold: +39 349 088 9763 | Carol Rolla +39 328 606 6298 info@globalartaffairs.org. www.globalartaffairs.org | www.personalstructures.org | www.venice-exhibitions.org

COMUNICATO STAMPA ( ITA – PDF 164 KB) - (PRESS IMAGES – ZIP 2.7 MB ) PERSONAL STRUCTURES www.venice-exhibitions.org www.palazzobembo.org New Book Plausible artworlds published by Baskamp. Published March 2013.  Includes images of recent post autonomy projects and interview by David Goldenberg

David Goldenberg in discussion during the opening of the show

In Search of Post Autonomy

New video on the performance in Milan published by Artribune TV

http://www.artribune.com/2012/12/david-goldenberg-e-la-sua-in-search-of-post-autonomy-immagini-dalla-performance-a-palazzo-isimbardi-milano/#

la mostra personale di David Goldenberg, The Scenarios of Post Autonomy alla galleria Glenda Cinquegrana: The Studio dal 18 settembre al 18 ottobre 2012 vista dalle telecamere del programma ARTV del canale CLASS CNBC.

https://twitter.com/Scenarios_of_PA

http://www.1fmediaproject.net/2012/09/18/david-goldenberg-the-scenarios-of-post-autonomy-glenda-cinquegrana-the-studio-milan/

http://www.facebook.com/ScenariosOfPA?ref=ts

A broadcast on the show goes out on  Saturday the 6th of October on Class Cnbc

http://www.padpad.eu/Detail_News_Display?ID=6445

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25415623@N04/sets/72157631635908124/

18th September 2012 – 25th October 2012

Gallery Glenda Cinquegrana: the Studio, Milan, Italy

http:// www.glendacinquegrana.com

The Scenarios of Post Autonomy 2

Launch of 3 new small books and full scale visulization book “Towards a Topology of Post autonomy” and portfolio of Digital prints examining Post Autonomy

To coincide with the exhibition in Milan a series of new books and booklets will be launched -

Texts & Scripts, A short History of Post Autonomy, MD 1,2 & 3

“Mobile Documenta”

in collaboration with Ioana Pioaru

Towards A Topology of Post Autonomy – a new visualisation by Ioana Pioaru of a note book by David Goldenberg produced in 2009

Mobile Documenta 1,2 & 3 – collected small catalogues, texts and images from 3 shows 2009 – 2011

A short history of Post Autonomy – this includes a brief history of the the term and sources for Post Autonomy 1970′s to 2010, and a chronology of projects examining Post Autonomy from 1999 – 2012

Texts and scripts – recent texts 2007 – 2012 – material produced since the Istanbul Biennial in 2007, texts for the Mongolian Biennial 2010, Conference in Baku in 2011, Conference at the Arts depot, Vienna, Austria, in 2010 and an unpublished text for an unrealised project in India in 2009/10.

 Visualization of a 2009 notebook “Towards a Topology of Post Autonomy”

The Transformation of Art

Which contains a selection of 24 colour A4 digital images of floor texts and drawings from the Vanabbemuseum 2009 and ITS-1 Belgrade 2010, Boxed with embossed title

Mobile Documenta

Collected booklets and book with CD and installation shots and posters, boxed with embossed title

Installation shots from glenda-cinquegrana-the-studio-milan

Visualising Post Autonomy as a discourse on Globalisation, Colonisations and Biennials 

Testing out claims made about art

Tracing a route towards thinking and language through resoving the inherent contradictions at the heart of Modernism i.e. A Euro centric tradition

Assembling an idea of a Mobile Documenta using containers as Pavilions

The scenarios of Post Autonomy 2

A talk on October 6th 4pm

Brief outline 

Scenarios of Post Autonomy 2 – using the exhibition to trigger a discussion

Now that the exhibition “The Scenarios of Post autonomy” is in place, we can go on to the next stage and look at how to use the material facts of the exhibition itself to assist us to think about clarifying the term Post Autonomy and make it understandable!

The Scenarios of Post Autonomy uses the term Post Autonomy to address the existing state of affairs – as though we already exist in a state of Post Autonomy – whether the break down of our freedoms and attacks against the institution of art, or the use of Post Autonomy as a fiction, as a proposition, that we can use to start to build a new art, a second history of art.

The exhibition sought two basic issues: how to visualise what is understood by Post Autonomy as a discourse examining Biennials, globalisation and colonisation, and using the image of a Mobile Documenta as a route out of the problems inherent to Modernism and the backdrop that we all work in.

The exhibition proposes a number of claims – because we have not addressed the fundamental problems at the heart of Modernism i.e. its role in globalisation and colonisation; the claim that we have art, language and thinking is an illusion, and this problem is made more complex today through the existence of Global Neo Liberalism, that has absorbed all positions and thinking. By using the labour of establishing the position of Post Autonomy, we can establish just such a position that allows us to propose a critique of the existing state of affairs, and to look at recovering thinking and a language and build a second history of art along fundamentally new principles.

If we understand the use of Post Autonomy as a route out of the problems posed by Modernism and a means of not repeating those problems and establishing a new art, then how do we use the different threads of thinking developed throughout the exhibition to clarify the context that allows us to ask the following basic questions: How do we think about Post Autonomy? How do we pose a question about Post Autonomy? And how do we search for the language of Post Autonomy?

The talks will then lead to The scenarios of Post autonomy 3 – In search of Post Autonomy a collaborative series of random talks and new drawing and texts in different sites around Milan

Using the exhibition as a backdrop for thinking + floor drawings and discussions

The scenarios of Post Autonomy  3 – In search of Post Autonomy

Palazzo Isimbardi, Corso Monforte, 35, 20122 Milano, Italy

in collaboration with Gallery Glenda Cinquegrana: the Studio

The date and time for the event is Sunday 25th November

between 10am and 6pm

in search of PA

dialogue

intuitive map of palazzo isimbardi

global map

Performance – In Search of Post Autonomy

Palazzo Isimbardi, Milan, November 25th 2012

Transcript of skype discussion

[25/11/2012 10:56:07] Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan: It is about finding new means of exploration in finding or being open to new interpretations of what you are already doing
[25/11/2012 10:59:30] Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan: There is also a difference between the written and the spoken language, that might be important in this method of searching via drawing and writing
[25/11/2012 11:03:58] post-autonomy: thats an interesting point you are making
[25/11/2012 11:04:22] post-autonomy: what do you think spoken language can do, and written language can’t
[25/11/2012 11:04:45] Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan: Well, it is different parts of the brain working..
[25/11/2012 11:05:44] Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan: Also in accordance to what you remember, what is lost. Memory is connected in different ways to writing and speaking.
[25/11/2012 11:07:47] post-autonomy: true
[25/11/2012 11:07:54] Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan: So what is the body in this search. What is the voice as a body between the physical body and the space surrounding the body. How do you write what you sound like and does the unconscious sounds that we make when speaking, record them selves in writing
[25/11/2012 11:07:55] post-autonomy: speaking is also evanescent
[25/11/2012 11:08:01] Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan: yes
[25/11/2012 11:08:27] post-autonomy: great, we will add all that
[25/11/2012 11:08:58] post-autonomy: i am also thinking that the remembrance of spoken language is bound to alter it
[25/11/2012 11:09:12] Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan: yes. I agree.
[25/11/2012 11:09:17] post-autonomy: like when i try to write what you say
[25/11/2012 11:09:34] post-autonomy: it is my understanding of it, and my memory of it
[25/11/2012 11:09:41] post-autonomy: not exactly accurate
[25/11/2012 11:09:54] post-autonomy: and always interpretative
[25/11/2012 11:09:55] Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan: yes, that is so very interesting. I dont see that as a bad thing.
[25/11/2012 11:10:10] post-autonomy: so that may be a new way of exploring new territory?
[25/11/2012 11:10:19] post-autonomy: through more subjectivity
[25/11/2012 11:10:30] Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan: Actually, that is in some way, yes, exactly! Just what I was writing
[25/11/2012 11:10:34] post-autonomy: rather than very accurate documentation
[25/11/2012 11:10:40] post-autonomy: true
[25/11/2012 11:10:48] post-autonomy: great!
[25/11/2012 11:10:57] Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan:
[25/11/2012 11:13:47] post-autonomy: can we actually talk about a true loss in art and culture or are we actually talking about a natural errosion of language?
[25/11/2012 11:16:24] Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan: Do you believe in loss per se? Is language a Constant such as energy which just changes it’s shape and size and thus varies in accordance with what we are able to percieve?
[25/11/2012 11:17:50] post-autonomy: i think language as a tool is a representation of things and yes it can vary a lot
[25/11/2012 11:18:35] post-autonomy: the first and most obvious variation is that of the nationality of language…if we talk about spoken language
[25/11/2012 11:18:53] post-autonomy: and meaning changes in translation
[25/11/2012 11:19:23] Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan: but still I don’t know if you could talk about loss..
[25/11/2012 11:20:09] post-autonomy: well we can in so far that language loses its capacity of representing reality accurately because it cannot keep up with it
[25/11/2012 11:20:17] post-autonomy: with all the changes taking place
[25/11/2012 11:23:40] Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan: When does language ever represent reality? Most of the time, do we even know what we understand as mutual reality. Are we aware of our true reality and do we only think we agree insofar as we could not proceed without that feeling of relating meaningful to each other. I don’t think about the language as  representation of reality, more as a representation of experience and that is what I mean by questioning the loss..
[25/11/2012 11:29:27] post-autonomy: i think it is very good that you mention mutual reality because it is in this sphere that the discussion about language takes place. so language is like a mutual agreement isnt it? is what a group of subjects agree to use to designate things that they experience through their individual perception
[25/11/2012 11:29:47] post-autonomy: they have this mutual code they can use in order to understand each other
[25/11/2012 11:30:31] post-autonomy: it cannot be perfect , of course, it will never be able to perfectly express every type of individuation and subjectivity
[25/11/2012 11:39:51] Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan: Yes, we exchange meanings which we think of as mutual understandings, my question is, how do we know what we ourselves – with our whole subconcious reading – understand as real and/ or the meaning.. I don’t know if I can say that I am at all times understanding the communication between myself and other people, or even what I mean myself.. Sometimes I have the experience of having had a whole conversation which ends in mutual agreement, and then still not knowing what I have said or being able to give an accurate account of the conversation. The other side of what you said about the spoken language being evanescent, that the written is much more concrete. Of course that is just stating the obvious.. I am interested in whether you can give the written language the same fragile conditions as the spoken.. Maybe perhaps through a longer process of fabulating in the writing.. Can you eg. make a written Freudian slip? Or is it even possible to avoid making written Freudian slips?
[25/11/2012 11:46:32] Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan: Or maybe that whole thing is just to cover for trying to avoid the awareness of losing ground all the time..
[25/11/2012 11:49:39] post-autonomy: ok what you just said there sort of shows the pointlessness of this written discussion, because we had just agreed earlier on that it might be more interesting to use spoken language and explore its fragility
[25/11/2012 12:36:47] *** Call ended, duration 1:58:13 ***
[25/11/2012 12:55:52] post-autonomy: The name in italian: Linea comburente
[25/11/2012 12:56:06] post-autonomy: like comburency line
[25/11/2012 13:04:13] post-autonomy: there seems to be a problem with the connection again
[25/11/2012 13:05:41] Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan: I can’t see you..
[25/11/2012 13:08:23] Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan: I will be right back
[25/11/2012 13:19:38] *** Missed call from Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan. ***
[25/11/2012 13:19:53] *** Missed call from Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan. ***
[25/11/2012 13:24:48] post-autonomy: info@lineacomburente.com
[25/11/2012 13:25:18] post-autonomy: andrea.pingu@alice.it
[25/11/2012 13:25:50] post-autonomy: adellarte@googlemail.com Andrea and Adriana
[25/11/2012 14:08:52] Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan: I feel a little detached..
[25/11/2012 14:10:55] *** Missed call from Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan. ***
[25/11/2012 14:13:35] *** Stense Andrea Lind-Valdan created a group conversation with Ozlem Kalmaz.
Show group conversation ***
[25/11/2012 14:19:17] *** Call ended, duration 05:46 ***

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